Ringba and Pay Per Call

Transcript lightly edited for clarity.

John Casto 00:00

What type of affiliate has the biggest advantage starting out with paper Call today? Would you say it's the creative person, tech person, the biz dev person out of all the different personality types you could categorize in this space? Hey guys, I just want to say a quick thank you to our sponsors, not just Adam, but Rainbow. Of course. If you haven't already grabbed your copy of the Paper Call Revolution, which you can find on Amazon now, I am super excited to be here for a return guest on our YouTube channel, Adam Young, CEO of Ring Book.

Adam Young 00:28

Good to see you again, man.

John Casto 00:29

Thanks for joining me, brother.

Adam Young 00:30

Yeah, good to see you again.

John Casto 00:32

Here we are, 2024.

Adam Young 00:34

Yes sir.

John Casto 00:34

This is the time of opportunity for paper call. We have the paper call revolution, which you should wrap your copy if you haven't already. We'll link back to it. And you get this on Amazon. Why is paper call such a big opportunity today,

Adam Young 00:46

Man? So I think the landscape has changed in marketing and people are starting to focus on the consumer, which they should. And the thing about pay call is a consumer only picks up the phone and calls when they're really interested in a product or service. They actually want to buy it. And when they get connected to whoever's selling it, the people that are selling it are just taking orders and providing a consultation and giving the caller a really great user experience. And so it's a unique way of marketing because everyone wins. The consumer wins, the affiliate wins the business that's selling something wins and that's why I really love it. But more importantly, when you create a scenario where everyone wins, it's sustainable. And so if you're an affiliate marketer, and I've been through this myself, my background's affiliate marketing, I was an affiliate for 10 years and I talk about this in the book, sooner or later, all your campaigns die.

Either the advertiser goes under, they don't pay their bills, they change the campaign, they rip off what the affiliates are doing. It no longer works. There's a million reasons for the affiliate curse, but no matter what, the campaign goes away. But with pay per call, the companies that are buying calls are Fortune 100, fortune 500, 3000 person companies. They've made investments of hundreds of millions of dollars in their infrastructure. And so these campaigns are never going away. Everyone will need health insurance. Everyone will need auto insurance. Everyone will need their garage fixed. People are going to always need their cars towed. Even when they're robo taxis, they're going to get towed. And so these things are never going away and that's why it's a really exciting opportunity. Also because of some of the technology that's been released, affiliates are put in the driver's seat. They can work with multiple buyers.

If they don't like one, they don't have to keep working with them. It's a really, really cool way for an affiliate to build a scalable business and one that has enterprise value. For instance, I just had lunch with my good friend and customer, Anthony Ria, and everyone knows this. He sold his company to a public company for $50 million in cash and they were essentially paper call affiliates. When I see something like that, it's incredible. I've never seen it anywhere else in the affiliate marketing industry. We also just gave my good friend and client minelli a hundred million dollars goat award for doing a hundred million dollars on a single campaign. I also have another a hundred million dollars goat award and they don't know they're getting it yet, so I'm not going to give their name that is sitting in my living room back in Miami right now. And so it's just like an incredible opportunity that I don't think most marketers are aware of, but people are literally making billions of dollars.

John Casto 03:42

Obviously we couldn't predict TCPA and all these regulations coming into place maybe five years. I don't know. I'm newer to the industry. Right. But did you see the writing on the wall or did you just see this as a better product more or less 10 years ago?

Adam Young 04:01

Well, I think mean, the story is this. Harrison and I were affiliates and we had a very large campaign. We were doing eight figures a year in revenue with a team of four. And one day I walked out into my living room and had a whole bunch of screens. Obviously you could tell I like screens, right? And it was monitoring all the click traffic and they were just stopped. And I was hoping the internet was out, but it was not out. And I literally had a breakdown right then in there. We had spent two years building this business, but I had created nothing that I could sell, nothing that was permanently sustainable. I had made a lot of money, but it just disappeared. And that's when we realized that we need to go build something for the industry that could provide a sustainable opportunity. And then over time I learned very quickly that an inbounds call is the future because the consumer wins and outbound is not sustainable.

People are buying age data offshore call centers are dialing it. I haven't been able to use my cell phone for two years, basically. I haven't been able to answer a call, I don't know, for two years. And so we did see the writing on the wall years ago and realized that eventually something was going to happen. The timing didn't know, but we knew eventually something was going to happen. And the new FCC regulations, the new CMS guidelines, the FTCs weighed in on this. They have all said that outbound dialing is not really a great thing for consumers, but they are in full support of inbound calls. They look at it like someone walking into a CVS for instance. And the cool thing about an inbounds call is there's also no regulations around when you can do your marketing. So this isn't like you have to stop calling consumers at nine o'clock at night. It's just like a CVS. You can run your business 24 hours a day. And so I think more call centers and buyers are realizing this. They're changing what they're doing, and that just means that there's going to be more and more and more opportunity in our space. We are at the very beginning of the success of Paper Call, which is incredible to me because we're literally tracking billions of dollars through ringa on a quarterly basis, but we're still at the very early stages of this. So the opportunity is going to continue to grow.

John Casto 06:24

So every new opportunity brings challenges. Specifically for affiliates, what are some of the challenges you're seeing? Maybe we talk about a CA or any general and specific things you're noticing and advice you have for paper callers.

Adam Young 06:39

I think a lot of affiliates will simply either look to copy what someone else is doing, and you see it people just literally rip off of each other's landing pages and ads, which I do not advocate by the way, and I'll touch on that in a second. And then also I see people marketing in a way that is probably not acceptable to the consumer or making promises that aren't real. And what I would say is those are not the high volume players in the space. They're actually the minority, the largest players in any of these insurance categories that we see care more about the consumer experience and the quality of their advertisements than anyone else. And that means that the buyers love it, give them more cap. They come up with creative ways to do things with their buyers who end up being partners. And that's really where affiliates should have their heads.

They should be thinking about how do I provide a great consumer experience? How do I use technology to optimize what I'm doing in a meaningful way? And how do I really understand what the buyers want so that I can deliver quality consumers to them? And the people that are thinking this way are the ones that are literally making the vast majority of the money in the space. And the people you're talking about, the ones that are doing things that may not be acceptable are the ones that are going to wash out of the industry. They're the ones that are going to be in for a couple months, rip off some ads and then disappear. What they're doing is not sustainable. They will never sell their business like Anthony did, and those people will disappear very quickly out of the industry because the thing about a phone call that's unlike any other type of advertising is you can listen to the recording.

What happens, you can talk to the consumer and figure out how they got on the phone. And so the buyers are just going to find these things and then cut their partners. And it happens all the time. I'm sure you've heard about it. People get cut all the time and banned from buyers and put on lists blacklists because they're not thinking in the consumer's best interest. And so look, if you want to make a little bit of money, you can do those things. But if you want to generate generational wealth like real money, that's not how you do it. If you want to become incredibly rich in the marketing industry, you have to think about the consumer and think about the consumer first.

John Casto 09:13

If you were coming in the paper call today with all these amazing tools and technology that we have now compared to what, 15, 20 years ago, how would you start your journey in paper call if you had little to no money or on a smaller budget?

Adam Young 09:29

I mean, that's a great question. So the first thing I would do is read the paper call Revolution where I walk everybody through a high level overview of the entire industry, how to get started, the pitfalls, and then also how to scale. So this just isn't for new people, this is also for people like you and Manny's read the book. And I think that the reality is there's information in here that I learned over the last 20 years that I put in written form for everybody that's interested in this industry or just marketers in general. So that's where I would start. And I know that's a shameless plug, but I spent 15 months writing this thing. It is not a chat GPT book, it will create businesses. So if you read it, it's really valuable. And so if I knew what was in the book, the first thing I would do is obviously get technology to track my calls like rba, because without that I couldn't compete with you and I couldn't compete with any of the other people making a lot of money.

You can be an affiliate in this space and simply accept a tracking number from someone else and run calls to it. You can't because you have no control over where the call goes. None of the data to optimize your campaign, you can't do any of that. So step one, read the book, step two, get your technology. Step three is to start to look where everyone else. And so everyone will tell you, oh, where's the next big thing? Oh, it's this insurance vertical or it's that I would not be looking there. I would be looking at where people aren't, and then how to find consumers that are in groups that could pick up the phone and call. And that could be direct mail, it could be radio advertising and certain demographics, it could be TV ads, digital for sure, yard signs. I dunno. I would test everything that most people would think is silly.

And that's the cool thing about a phone number is you can put a phone number anywhere and people can call it, it's not like an ad on the internet where it has to be on Facebook or YouTube. Then I would also, as my business grew, I would listen to the government and follow their advice, which sounds nuts. Affiliates are like what? But CMS just came out and said that for Medicare, an inbound phone call to a call center that turns into a transfer is perfectly okay, right? An outbound phone call, not so much, but if you can get an inbound, a consumer to pick up the phone and call your call center and then qualify that consumer and then transfer them somewhere else, that's perfectly fine. So what I would be thinking about is how I could take more generalized advertisements that'll have a lower CPA to get someone on the phone into a call center and qualify them for something else.

Maybe they don't qualify for insurance, but I can go back and say, Hey, do you have any medical issues? Do you need to talk to a lawyer? And were you in a car accident recently? I don't know what, but I would qualify those consumers and then transfer them off because what I'm creating then is a value added process that no one can take away from me. And then I would suck up all the affiliate traffic that way. And that's the opportunity that I would be looking at as I scale my business because I don't just want to be an affiliate where I'm running traffic to someone else's phone number. I want to control the entire value chain. And with Paper Call an affiliate can actually do that, and some of 'em are incredible at it. They'll use technology to add more layers to what they're doing to better qualify a consumer and then make sure that that consumer is going to the best home.

And what that does is it gets their conversion rate way up. If you can connect a consumer with a buyer that really has a great product that the consumer wants, they're going to stay on the phone forever and everybody wins. And so that's what I would be thinking about. And I would say right now, and I know this for sure because I see more data than anyone else in the industry, is that the people who are winning the most are the ones that are really learning the technology and understanding how they can leverage it to create proprietary results. What routing plans work the best? Are they using predictive routing algorithms? Are they using the technology to qualify their calls? Are they taking the data and using it for retargeting appropriately? Are they appending demographic data to the caller IDs and then direct mailing that data, right? There's just so many ways that you can take a caller ID or an inbound phone call and create an amazing outcome for a consumer and your partners and the people who are making the most money are the ones that are the absolute best at that.

John Casto 14:32

So it's no longer about, I have this offer and I send traffic and it converts where it doesn't, even with a good buyer tree on the back, it really is about going the deeper and more or less getting vertically integrated, whether that's just with a more robust and diverse buyer and offer stack or you go that next level where you're getting involved with the call center in some form or fashion.

Adam Young 14:56

Exactly. And the number one suggestion I give to people that I think the least amount of people take is to listen to the calls and not just to couple but thousands. And I was just doing a podcast the other day where I was talking about how many ad creatives I have to do for the book to make it work the way I want. And I literally have a media buyer right there who's filming us and paying attention to this. And so I'm talking to you bud, and the minimum number of ads, we're going to have to do thousands, and we're going to do thousands of changes over time to the landing pages and the creatives there to get the outcomes we want. And I advocate that in advertising, and I don't think most people are willing to do that kind of work, but for me, that's just the beginning.

And so the same goes if you're doing paper call, how many phone calls can you listen to learn what happens on the phone? How did the ad creative influence the conversation with the buyer? What did the consumer say? What negative keywords can you generate off of consumer interactions on the phone? If you listen to an inbound call from Google and they're mentioning things that don't make sense to the buyer, how can you convert that into a negative keyword to remove the lower quality consumers from the call flow? And then also, what can you learn about what the consumer wants when they pick up the phone and call that you can then convert into ad creatives and unique ways to target those consumers. And so for me, listening to a phone call would be a never ending process, and I would outsource some QA at scale, but if I were the media buyer, I was the one running the acquisition business, I would be listening to those phone calls on a daily basis also to keep track of what my buyers are doing if they're doing a great job, not doing a great job, whatever, to what the affiliates are doing.

If I'm buying affiliate traffic, I want to listen to all those calls, learn what they're doing. And so it all comes back to putting in the work. But if you're willing to put in the work, you can create results and paper call very, very quickly. I know Teddy Teddy's a buddy of mine, he just got a $10 million goat award, and I met him at a mastermind and he knew nothing about Paper Call, but he was doing affiliate campaigns, and I literally explained these exact things to Teddy at this event, and then bam, overnight he starts testing paper call campaigns. This man will do the work. No question about it. He's a grinder and he's very smart. He'll put the hours in, so will his team. His team is phenomenal. They also will work their ass off and they just did the work and now they're running an eight figure pay per call agency not knowing anything about the business a few months before simply because they were willing to put in the work. And that type of opportunity for me gets me super excited because when I was a teenager, I didn't have an MBA, I didn't go to college, I barely made it through high school, but I was willing to work my ass off. And that's how I learned business. And there weren't opportunities like that in 2003, but now they exist. And so if people are willing to do the work, they can create a phenomenal lifestyle business or a really big business or an incredibly huge business they can sell. Yeah, and that's why it's so cool.

John Casto 18:15

Do you see anyone trying to take paper call and move it into different markets? I had a conversation with someone the other day, I lived in South America. There's a lot of call centers in South

Adam Young 18:25

America

John Casto 18:25

That service the US in English, but first language is Spanish. I know we don't have a CA in Columbia and other government subsidy programs, but I was thinking the economics of the cost of traffic in those markets with the infrastructure of call centers already being their first language, do you see anyone being able to take paper call and move it into those markets effectively with paid media?

Adam Young 18:53

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, let's rewind for a second there. The highest margin phone calls you can run in the United States in any vertical is Spanish. And most people don't do that. And so that's an incredible opportunity. Same thing inbound to a transfer center in Spanish, sell it to a Spanish whatever campaign. So that's a huge opportunity. But yes, absolutely there are paper call campaigns in other countries, but most people aren't running them like a traditional affiliate model. They're doing the marketing themselves. And I'm aware of some pretty big call centers that do all kinds of campaigns in Europe, Australia, even Asia, but it's not affiliates driving phone calls because they don't need to because there's literally no competition in those countries to generate phone calls. So the companies are figuring out how to do it themselves and have their own marketing departments. That doesn't mean pay per call won't come.

There's absolutely pay per call in the UK and Australia. And I think in some of these other countries, what will happen is smart marketer, you that's down in Columbia will be like, Hey, I can open a call center. I know how to work with affiliates. You'll drive the traffic yourself, create the offers and campaigns, and then eventually affiliates will start to run international. And it'll be an incredible opportunity for everybody involved because anytime that a campaign's not in a language that most affiliates natively speak, they don't see it. So they don't know it exists, they don't go to it, and there's no competition. I know you're going to post this video, but the reality is for you specifically or anybody else that has that sort of edge, yeah, I would be thinking about how I can reach non-English speaking Americans, non-English speaking Canadians, non-English speaking UK and Australians.

I would be thinking about how you could go after Spanish speaking countries. I think what's interesting is in some campaigns I used to run as an affiliate, we would look for socioeconomic indicators that certain areas in foreign countries where high income and then we would localize our marketing in a real tight geographic area. For instance, Mexico City is extremely affluent. Most people don't know that. And you can make a lot of money running campaigns in Mexico City specifically because of that. And so you could have your Colombian call center that sells something to Mexico and then really target the higher income areas based on geography or a campaign that Harrison and I did really well with. We convinced a US advertiser to let us run traffic in Kuwait and other areas where there were really large military bases. And then we would run 'em in English and tightly geotarget the military bases. And those are all Americans. They would have, these were physical products. They'd have their physical products shipped to the United States, or I forget what it's called, but it's like a PO box that gets to them overseas. And there was no competition. We were paying basically $0 CPM and

John Casto 22:06

Zero competition,

Adam Young 22:07

Zero competition, no cost to the advertising. We were making something like 90, 95% margins. And it wasn't like we were selling tons of these products, but these were five figure a day campaigns at 90% margin. And so I think anytime you can look where people aren't or get really creative about your targeting, get really creative about your languages, you can find incredible opportunities. And I guarantee you over the next decade, someone just like you or you is going to find a market that's in a foreign country and they're going to build a call campaign and they're going to make incredible amounts of money because there's no competition and there's no one thinking this way.

John Casto 22:50

So when affiliates come to events like Leads Con, you see in here a CA, you've seen here dead, you see in here Auto Now, is that what they should be thinking in your opinion? Or do you think outside of the box is where you start?

Adam Young 23:07

Well, I mean, there's not to say that there isn't money in those verticals. There's a ton. I think it depends on if you are brand new to all digital marketing or you are brand new to paper call that you're an affiliate that's had success elsewhere. If you've run 6, 7, 8 figures worth of volume as an affiliate lifetime and you come into our space, then hell yeah. If you can do the business development, go into Medicare, go into auto, do those things, it's a little harder. If you want to work with direct buyers, and we're talking about Fortune 500 companies, if you're not good at business development, it's not going to go well for you. For instance, Medicares is going on right now, and I will literally, you can pick out the lead generators like a sore thumb. If you just stand there in suits and they're in t-shirts and diamonds or something and they want to walk up to UnitedHealthcare and say, yo, can I get some cap?

And that is not how you do that. Okay? So if you want to work in the insurance vertical, you have to go, oh, what's that? That's an older vertical, more old school biz dev. I'm going to need to put on a suit jacket. I'm going to need to conduct myself in a professional way. I'm going to need to have business cards and a brand. So if you want to get into those spaces, you need to think more like a business person to do it, and there's an incredible opportunity. Auto's going to explode again. But you're going to need to conduct yourself different than going to say an affiliate summit where you literally can wear shorts, flip flops in a gold chain and go talk to a CPA network, and they're happy to talk to you. That in paper call is not how you conduct yourself.

You need to conduct yourself. You're building a real business, you're a real business person, and then you need to build a real business, build a team of professionals, then that's how you create an incredible outcome in Paper Call. And if you want to go into those verticals, that's going to be how you need to conduct yourself. If you want to go into smaller verticals or different ones that have a different vibe, like Home Services for instance, you can go talk to home services people and khaki pants and a button down shirt, no sweat, right? That's how they conduct their business. So you need to think about who's your audience? How am I going to match my presentation to the buyer audience? And if you can do that, you can find a ton of success. But if you're going to try and behave like you're going to affiliate World Barcelona and show up at Medis and try and talk to Aetna, you're not going to have a good time. It is just not going to work. And also, I think in those verticals, if you're going to do the trade show circuit, you really need to work the app, set appointments beforehand, and think about this more like a business development process as opposed to just showing up.

If you're new and you want to find some networks or people to work with, sure, just show up. But if you really want to find some great partners, you're going to need to put in the legwork in advance.

John Casto 26:11

What type of affiliate, if we're talking archetypes, has the biggest advantage starting out with paper call today? Would you say it's the creative person? Would you say it's the tech person? Would you say it's the biz dev person out of all the different personality types you could categorize in the space? Who

Adam Young 26:29

Has, it's someone who can wrap all of that together, honestly,

Because in Paper call, you need higher level business development skills. You're going to need some tech skills. You're going to need to be creative, changing the format. So I mean, the ideal person to scale a huge company in paper call someone like Teddy, right? That has a team. It can even be a small team, but they have some technical knowledge. They have Teddy's amazing at business development. He presents really well. He's got a solid team that does great creative behind him. And so that's the ideal one for building a big business in it. But if it's an independent affiliate, it's someone that isn't scared of learning software platforms that isn't scared of trying to figure out how to do an integration that's willing to learn or willing to spend a little money to hire someone, maybe an outsource person that has some development skills so they can help with these things. You're going to need all three of those things no matter what if you're going to get into our industry and do really well. So if they're not able to do that themselves, they have to be able to say, they got to set the ego down and be like, Hey, I'm not a great tech person, or I'm not a great business development person. And then they have to be willing to invest in hiring those people or partnering with those people or learning the skills.

John Casto 27:48

What do you believe creates the most leverage among that broad spectrum of skill sets and outcome? That's

Adam Young 27:55

A great question. I think it changes as your business progresses. At first, I think it's the creative, right, getting a little traction. If you have incredible creative, and let's say you buy Ringa and don't know it very well, you rely on our support team. You can get your ad costs low enough that you can sell a call to a network. And if you can get your ad costs that low and sell to a network and start to make some money, then you can hire someone to do business development. You can hire someone to help you with the tech. If you are bigger and have a bit of a team, then the best outcomes are going to come from the ability to use technology. So I was just talking to one of our customers, Alec over at Aragon advertising. They run a paper call network and we had a great conversation. They have an awesome team, and if you're new to the space and you're an affiliate and you want to get into paper call, you should definitely talk to Aragon. They're awesome. And just be honest with 'em. Tell 'em exactly what you're doing. Hey, I'm new to the space I used to run e-comm, I need to learn, but I'm invested. If you're just straight with those people, they'll help you.

He was telling me that, and they've been one of the number one paper call networks since the beginning of Paper call. He was telling me that their number one thing right now to scale their business is getting deep into the technology. So they're investing heavily in learning our tech, learning all the advanced features of our tech, learning about programmatic call, selling, call buying, investing in people to just be inside of Ring and integrate with our team on a daily basis because they realize that for their growth and their margins, they have to leverage the most advanced technology the best because they're going to go try and compete with the biggest companies that exist in Paper Call. So I think at that scale, that's where the money is made. And then as you continue to grow, finding and hiring just top tier business development talent and building a business, I think at the very top of the pay per call game, everybody I know is investing in hiring people in all those categories and then constantly improving their team across creative tech and business development.

John Casto 30:14

What makes Ring Bus so special?

Adam Young 30:16

First and foremost, I think it starts with Harrison and I, we're the only people in the industry that own a technology platform that actually did the thing that it's for. And so Harrison and I were media buyers and affiliates for over a decade. Harrison's been in the space his entire life. I met him when he was 14. I think he made his first million bucks in affiliate marketing when he was 13. He had an Amex Black card. When I met him, he was 14 years old. It made absolutely no sense. He couldn't even get into the trade show because he wasn't 18 years old. So he stood in the hallway and tried to create relationships when people were walking out. And so my story's a little different than that, but I started as a teenager as well in marketing. And so our entire professional careers have been spent working in these industries.

And so I think we just understand you and our customers very differently than everybody else because they're not marketers. They don't know what marketers need, and they haven't been in the industry long enough to see the progression, so they can't predict the future and they won't be able to build things as well as we will for the people. We are, right? Really, we're just building for us. Our clients are us. So first and foremost that also I think we're willing to invest where others won't. We're willing to invest in support and technology in a way that no other company in the industry is. We're not interested in how much money Harrison and Adam make. We're interested in how much money John makes, and that's our mission at ringa. We're very mission focused and values driven, and those mission and values are all around how we serve our customers and serve the industry.

This book right here is about getting as many people into the opportunity as possible so they can succeed. I don't know how it'll affect our business. I don't know if I actually care. What I care about is that mission of how we grow the industry and how we help people in the industry create jobs and make their families successful. And it's crazy. The amount of calls that flow through our platform are responsible for hundreds of thousands of people's livelihoods in America. And that's what drives me every day. And that's why we don't mind. We will invest. We have 30 something support engineers who are all software developers that do nothing but service our clients. I think our support department's bigger than all our competitors in this trade show hall. Their entire teams combined. To me, I'm most proud of that. It's like, how do we serve our customers the best? I mean, and if you've used our technology, I think it speaks

John Casto 33:05

Pretty

Adam Young 33:05

Awesome for itself. I mean, the same people who built that technology are the same people who built these giant screen walls here. We're just willing to build crazy things and spend the money it takes to do that, to hire incredible staff, to get the outcomes our customers want. Everyone sells calls on Ping today. What most people don't realize is we invented that technology for SaaS and rolled out Ring trees six years ago when everyone told us no one would ever do it. We put out programmatic call buying technology in 2020. We invented it for SaaS, we rolled it out to the market, and we've evangelized the use of it for the last four and a half years. And I mean, when a company like Progressive Insurance says, Hey, we're going to use that and only buy calls this way. I think that's a pretty big leading indicator that that's the future of our industry.

I think that I spend a lot of time thinking about, and I actually mean this. How do I help John 10 X the size of his business over the next five years? That's literally my daily thought process. And if you ask any of our team members here, and I think we have 20 something people between the two trade shows going on here, what our mission is or what we're doing or what our focus is, a hundred percent of them are going to tell you. It's making our clients' businesses grow and helping them achieve success. And that's the most proud thing I'm proud of at Ring ba. And I think that's the number one reason why we have just really dominated the entire space and helped lift up the entire industry. And we're going to keep doing that, right? Like writing books and doing pods with you and doing all these things. It brings more people in. It actually helps all my competitors grow too. And I don't know. I think that's a pretty incredible outcome, and that's the one we're really focused on.

John Casto 35:09

What would be one big idea or piece of advice you have for affiliates in Paper Call or starting paper call?

Adam Young 35:16

I have seen more people make astronomical amounts of money in affiliate marketing in the last couple of years. And when I look into what they are doing, they're maniacally focused on the outcomes for their partners and consumers. It is not the get rich quick garbage. It is all of the campaigns that actually provide value to everybody. And so if an affiliate can shift their mindset away from how do I make as much money as possible to how do I build a lasting business that consumers love and my partners love, they can sell those businesses. And so the number one thing I have learned over my career is to focus on the consumer or who you serve. And if you can focus on the consumer or who you serve and stop thinking about what I get out of the process and start thinking about what you get out of the process, you can build a massive business and become incredibly wealthy.

And very few people think that way, but the ones that do are the ones that win the biggest. And so I don't think this is talked about enough in our industry, but I think it should be. And I think the leaders of our industry should be talking about it more because they're the ones that are making the money and they're the ones that are focused on the consumer. So I know that's probably not the answer to the question that most people would expect, but that's the one that I know based on the data is resulting in people making hundreds of millions of dollars.

John Casto 36:56

Well, you live it and breathe it and walk it and talk about, so thank you.

Adam Young 37:00

Yeah.

John Casto 37:00

How can people, obviously the book they get on Amazon,

Adam Young 37:03

Yeah.

John Casto 37:04

How else can they connect with you, learn more about Ring blah, learn more about you?

Adam Young 37:07

Sure. You can follow me on social media at Adam Young. I'm easy to find. You can reach out to our team@ringbit.com. You can find us at any trade show. You can find me at any trade show. Feel free to come up, say hi. We love meeting people who are new. We love helping people grow their business. So just feel free to reach out to me or our team, connect with us, read the book, join our forums@papercallers.com. Just get involved in our ecosystems and our communities and we can help you get involved in Paper Call.

John Casto 37:42

Appreciate you, man, and what you need. Thank

Adam Young 37:43

You. Thank you.